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楼主: zhixl

[讨论]听觉处理 auditory processing in human&a

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thinker_jeff 发表于 2005-12-6 04:08:00 | 显示全部楼层
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原文由 xneuron 发表于 2005-11-26 12:14:41 :

What your opinion about plasticity ??


            The terminology of plasticity seems changing from the original concept to the contemporary concept.fficeffice" />

            The original plasticity concept about neural network was using for the early development stage of an animal live, which ended to the certain age, some area might end sooner than the others. After that age, the individual live could only depend on learning to gain their ability for survive.

            More recently the plasticity concept has been extended through all of the animal's life. I have not been convinced that is for sure.

            To my understanding, the plasticity is a feature being able to select the effective synapses and give up the non-effective ones by leaning. But learning is a process not only using plasticity but also being able to grow the new effective synapses. So I still think that the original concept has been more acceptable.

石悲 发表于 2005-11-1 22:08:00 | 显示全部楼层

这里转引几年前一段文章,供各位参考批评:

听觉系统从外界刺激到进入思维状态比视觉应该说简单些。对声波的接受没有象眼球那么需要复杂的调节机制去主动获得特定某种成份,至少对人类来讲,已经失去了某种动物可以通过外耳的活动辨别、选择各种声源的能力。声音到达内耳时,只不过是由不同频率和强度构成的信号。如果说视觉是通过视网膜的平面获得信息的话,那么听觉是由内耳按时间先后获得的一条线状的信息。内耳如何获得声波刺激的机理并不十分清楚,有共振说、频率说、行波说等。不过这对理解听觉的思维形成倒不是一个不可克服的障碍。可以肯定,某一片刻的声波,在内耳接受,并在螺旋神经节、耳蜗神经核、下丘、内侧膝状体等各级中枢的转换后,最后到达颞叶初级听皮质时,已经根据声波中所含有的各种频率和每种频率的强度而形成特定的神经元网络兴奋模式。相对于视皮质,听皮质的外来信息密度明显少多了。但现在,对听觉到皮质后的活动去向也是几乎一片空白。与听觉有关的巨大颞叶皮质对思维的意义,确实大有潜力可挖。fficeffice" />

就象初级视皮质的特定神经模式的兴奋,产生我们的主观视觉,初级听皮质的兴奋也是主观听觉的形成,而不是我们正常能参与思维活动的关于听觉的神经元兴奋网络(听觉思维素)。我们的想象并不能产生逼真的听感受。想象中的听觉形象思维素是次级听皮质的兴奋,那里也是根据声波的内容而析出各种不同特征的思维素,包括各种不同的频率、强度的单独形式,和它们的组合规律,特别是在时间参数影响下的变化规律。因为所有音的特征析出只有跨时才能产生。如强弱、持续时间、不同频率的重复性、密度、以及各种复杂变化规律,所以可以称之为时音组合。产生这些特征的次听区神经元应该拥有较多的级量反应特征,以适应声音变化与时间相关性的要求。已经证实,大脑听觉皮质存在着对时间有专门敏感的细胞群。

能参与思维活动的听觉思维素是从听感觉中的特征析出,可以随着思维活动而随意组合。我们可以想象出某个人从未讲出的一句话的声音、语调,但这种想象出来的话不会象真实的听感觉那样的逼真,因为这时的神经元网络兴奋并不发生在听感觉初级皮层,而在次听皮层,是多种特征的组合兴奋,包括从那个人的发音中析出的频率特征、语速特征、和来自其它思维活动的兴奋网络,如语言的内容、语言结构等的有关思维素的参与。此时尽管初级听皮层仍在接收来自听感觉的传入,但它的兴奋模式与次皮层的兴奋模式处于分离状态。只要次级皮层缺乏足够的兴奋强度,或已受到其它思维活动的影响,那么听感觉和听觉思维就会分离。这种情况我们平时经常会遇到,譬如,有时想听某一时间的消息,打开收音机后在等待消息时,思维活动转换到其它方面,结果该消息的播放并没有进入思维活动。尽管收音机已经播完这条消息,我们也感受到收音机的播音,可自己却毫无印象。这就是听感觉与听思维的分离。这种现象与视感觉到视思维的过程完全一样。当外界刺激的信息,在经过多次转换后,达到次听皮层,那么,听感觉的过程就结束了,进入到听觉思维阶段。(转引自《我们心灵的奥秘》)

 楼主| zhixl 发表于 2005-10-30 09:41:00 | 显示全部楼层
我要在这里连续介绍和讨论听觉皮质处理的基础知识及前沿研究,希望各位关注
 楼主| zhixl 发表于 2005-11-14 16:36:00 | 显示全部楼层
引用
原文由 thinker_jeff 发表于 2005-11-12 22:58:00 :

This is a good one!

_______________________________________________________________

Abstract #5708, Date Sunday, Feb 20 2000 1:00PM - 12:00PM , Session ,
Frequency tuning plasticity in rat primary auditory cortex
Pritesh K Pandya , Jessica Vazquez , Daniel Rathbun , Navzer D Engineer , Raluca Moucha , Michael P Kilgard
It is well documented that powerful plasticity mechanisms can substantially alter the receptive fields (RF) of auditory cortex neurons. Episodic electrical stimulation of the cholinergic nucleus basalis (NB) paired with tonal stimuli can be used to mimic naturally occurring experience-dependent plasticity. This plasticity paradigm is sufficient to generate dramatic changes in the representation of both spectral (Kilgard & Merzenich, Science, 1998) and temporal (Kilgard & Merzenich, Nature Neuroscience, 1998) information in the primary auditory cortex (A1) of adult rats. RF size (spectral selectivity) can be narrowed, broadened, or left unchanged depending on the specific parameters of the stimulus paired with NB activation. Previous work using NB stimulation suggests that frequency bandwidth varies systematically as a function of spectral variability and modulation rate. A primary goal of our ongoing research is to precisely characterize how differential acoustic experience shapes cortical response properties. The present study represents a further step in our effort to determine the rules of plasticity for frequency selectivity. Adult rats were chronically implanted with NB stimulating electrodes and received electrical stimulation of NB paired with a single tone with a high degree of spectral variability (1 of 10 randomly interleaved tone frequencies) 200-300 times per day for approximately 20 days. Frequency-intensity tuning properties were derived using multi-unit data from 50-70 microelectrode penetrations for each animal during an acute mapping experiment using barbiturate anesthesia. Our present model of A1 plasticity predicts that pairing NB stimulation with different tone frequencies will trigger maximal sharpening of A1 frequency tuning. Preliminary results are encouraging and the final results of this study will be discussed in the context of previous work on the differential RF plasticity in A1 dependent upon the degree of spectral variability and modulation rate of the paired stimuli.
Supported by the Callier Excellence in Education Fund

[此帖子已被 thinker_jeff 在 2005-11-12 22:59:41 编辑过]


我没有检索到全文.

要是有feedback top-down的研究结果就好了.

thinker_jeff 发表于 2005-11-1 23:35:00 | 显示全部楼层
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原文由 zhixl 发表于 2005-11-1 9:27:15 :

2.个体差异,特别是初级听觉皮质的位置个体差异很大,所以参考一些经过加算平均处理后的研究结果时一定要慎重. 自己写report的时候也要尽量避免写出"定位在primary auditory area"的字样,否则会遇到麻烦的.\


I guess this maybe because each individual had the unique learning history about his (her) native language.fficeffice" />

 

 楼主| zhixl 发表于 2005-11-2 07:57:00 | 显示全部楼层
引用
原文由 石悲 发表于 2005-11-1 22:08:05 :

这里转引几年前一段文章,供各位参考批评:

转引自《我们心灵的奥秘》)


非常感谢推荐,我已经在google上找到了,抽时间要认真拜读.
 楼主| zhixl 发表于 2005-11-2 08:18:00 | 显示全部楼层
引用
原文由 thinker_jeff 发表于 2005-11-1 23:35:22 :
引用
原文由 zhixl 发表于 2005-11-1 9:27:15 :

2.个体差异,特别是初级听觉皮质的位置个体差异很大,所以参考一些经过加算平均处理后的研究结果时一定要慎重. 自己写report的时候也要尽量避免写出"定位在primary auditory area"的字样,否则会遇到麻烦的.\


I guess this maybe because each individual had the unique learning history about his (her) native language.fficeffice" />

 


人和大部分哺乳动物primary auditory area 是按输入声音的频率在不同的细胞团被处理的(本人读过小鼠的研究报告,声音强度也一样,而且音强和频率处理位置的相关系数很高). 人类语音的频率带宽相对于整个听觉系统可处理的频率带宽而言是很窄的,所以我推测人类的语音只在为数很少的几个细胞团里被处理(推测而已,没读过相关报告). 所以语音对整个A1表现出来的个体差异的影响可能不大.

 thinker_jeff 兄,可以说说自己的想法吗?说出来,互相给些灵感.

[此帖子已被 zhixl 在 2005-11-2 8:24:20 编辑过]

thinker_jeff 发表于 2005-10-31 02:47:00 | 显示全部楼层
remind_me 发表于 2005-10-31 09:11:00 | 显示全部楼层

热烈欢迎!

最近正看到相关部分。

 楼主| zhixl 发表于 2005-10-31 14:11:00 | 显示全部楼层

谢谢3楼4楼捧场

我先将我为硕士生课准备的讲义整理后写到这里.不过不要误会,我不是老师,我还是一个学生,但在日本,硕士生基本是博士生指导的.所以我也就要做这些本不属于我的工作了.还有,我的导师不是日本人,一点都不动日本语,我们都讲英语,所以我是用英文写材料的.因为论坛里的各位将来的论文论文都要用英文发,所以大家也就直接看我的英文材料吧.不过,我的英文很烂,导师用" poor"形容我的英文. 大家看我整理的材料,多多提意见,越多越好.提的越多,我会觉的写的越有意义,不光是听觉知识方面的,还有英文方面的,都希望看到大家的意见.

因为自由时间不多,所以写的时候将有大量引用他人观点的时候不注明出处,请大家见谅.大家也可以理解成以下的讨论几乎没有几个观点是我的,毕竟我还是学生.

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